Morning☆Glory (Harukawa Maki) (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
rollplayinghouse) wrote2018-12-21 02:50 pm
rollplayinghouse) wrote2018-12-21 02:50 pm
Question meme
I wanted to do a question meme and apparently Maki has broken 10k comments somehow.
You know the drill.
You know the drill.
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Overall though, Intensity is currently the boyfriend she feels best about, despite the fact that he turned down being called her boyfriend and gets annoyed when she/anyone else refers to him that way and still won't talk explicitly about feelings. A lot of things have happened that make her totally confident in his feelings for her, and she trusts him and believes he trusts her. Some big things include him being the only boyfriend who was there for her during monochrome disease (he whisked her away on his dragon so she could be somewhere people wouldn't see her cry and told her if she faded away he'd pull her out of hell himself, etc), and him allowing her to be there for him when he had nightmares after his memory. It's also just... more straightforward than her other relationships, because she knows he wouldn't do something if he didn't want to, and wouldn't let her top him into things if he didn't want it either. And in general all those things seem to go well for both of them.
With Joker, she is... tentatively optimistic about things moving forward, but in the way where she was deeply, intensely angry and sad about the whole summoning Asmodeus without telling her thing. Making him cry in the trial did in fact get out some of her frustrations about it though, so when they talked afterwards she was calm enough that they went straight into apologies and how to fix things, and he seems really earnestly interested in doing better this time. And he seems to have finally taken to heart some things she told him... shortly after Betrayal. Which on the one hand is annoying because he's been having the same problems for a month. On the other hand he's definitely trying now. And a lot of the Asmodeus-anger was basically the same feeling as after the prisoner's dilemma game: she's so upset because she trusted and cared about him, and he acted theoretically in her interests but totally without her input, so it felt more like a betrayal than anything. And she started dating him after prisoner's dilemma because that just... really highlighted how much she wanted to trust and care about him and have him be there for her. So that's the current feeling.
She's actually way more unsure of the situation with A, because she thought things were going better with him, but when he vented to her about Joker kissing Fox, he mentioned a) that he's always known Joker liked Maki better than him, and b) he just assumes Joker's going to get distracted by someone else and leave him eventually. So Maki is a little stung, because... has he been thinking that way all this time...? Their current thread is at least working out some things, in that he's admitted he's been trying very hard to be a Good Boyfriend for the Relationship, and Maki was like, please do not do that if it makes you miserable? I want you to be happy more than I want a Relationship? So we'll... see how that develops.
ON THE NOT-YET-BOYFRIEND FRONT
Nine Nine was actually there for her more than 2/3 of her boyfriends when she was monochrome, despite being possessed - he told her he wanted her to have a good last memory, and that's why he took her toward the edge of town on his motorcycle to set off fireworks. She was VERY CHARMED and asked, half-jokingly, if he was sure he did not also want to be her boyfriend, and he said he liked her but no way was he getting involved with a relationship involving Joker and Intensity, and Maki told him she liked him but that was very fair. She's pretty comfy with the situation there.
Mars is apparently going to be a thing after mistletoe, because they got very into it and he told her she was amazing but that he definitely can't do things outside the game. She's going to tell Joker about it and probably try to get pre-emptive approval for making out with him more just in case. Though this also depends on A. She is still... a bit unsure about Mars, because they did get very into each other very fast. On the one hand she started out absolutely sure she was not going to get involved with Joker's doppelganger because that was weird, and she still ended up flirting with him basically immediately, so she clearly likes him for his own reasons, but on the other hand there's this vague 'this is what it could have been like with Joker if we'd moved faster and had less murder houses' about it which is weird. On the other hand again she did also start flirting with Joker basically immediately, so she still feels like she's more... genuinely responding to him being similar in the same way she did with Joker, rather than carrying over Joker feelings. IT'S A WEIRD SITUATION. He's very cute and hot though 8(
THAT'S IT FOR... ACTUAL BOYFRIEND-LIKE-THINGS I THINK... that was a summary, right.
REVERSE i.e. give me a summary of the state of Yasuragi's relationships
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Anyway. From the beginning Silk has felt very familiar/comfortable to Maki, obviously since they are pretty similar people! Being friends with her has always felt almost strangely easy/effortless, because they haven't really had to work to understand each other a lot, and she doesn't feel particularly nervous or self-conscious about opening up to her. Plus, I feel like I mentioned at some point, a lot of the problems Maki has with talking to people about romance/feelings things is that for a lot of people she feels like their advice for her ends up being "be better at feelings" which is obviously... hard for her. Silk will say she's not helpful, but having someone on the same level approach things with her is actually often much better.
Having their jealousy talk was good, because Maki has also been vaguely jealous of Silk from the beginning also - because Silk is on Bad End. How come Silk, who appears to be extremely similar to Maki, gets to be on Bad End, and Maki is stuck on Taisho?? For that reason she does feel like she understands Silk's "what if you come onto Bad End and take the one thing I have, my place on the team" perspective, though. So even though Silk said it was dumb, Maki kind of... respects it, and doesn't really want to make things awkward there? The whole reason Maki wants to move is that she wants to have a place on the team, so she can't really judge Silk for wanting to keep that. Which is a lot of the reason (other than Zrael being cute) that she's leaning for Zrael rather than Bad End right now.
REVERSE
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She does feel better for having talked about it, though, and does realize that sharing a team with someone she thinks of as a friend would probably be okay. Though at the same time, it's nice to have someone off team she trusts, because the more dependent she becomes on Bad End the more likely she is to become stupid and territorial about the team.
She also didn't realize that Maki was also jealous of her so it's nice to know she's not the only one who has those kinds of insecurities. All in all I think she feels closer to her now than she did before, even if she feels bad that she may have discouraged her from joining Bad End.
Also it would never occur to her to feel like Maki should be better at feelings, because she kind of thinks Maki is already better at feelings than she is, so like. She's clearly doing ok, from Silk's perspective.
How does Maki feel about the kissing?
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Reflecting on it, Maki definitely likes Silk and is comfortable with her and thinks she's objectively attractive. But they're too similar as people for her to actually be Maki's type (Maki doesn't really like herself very much), and so she doesn't really think of her that way. Instead she is just a bit like... okay if I were like Joker and was the sort of person who just had sex with people I was close to for comfort/fun, I'd probably be willing to have sex with Silk? It would probably be comfortable and fun? But she still can't picture herself doing anything like that without freaking out / shutting down / being too anxious and weird for it to be enjoyable. She's... she's working on it.
Reverse!!
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She's also not sure it's the kind of relationship Maki would want or need from her. Because...Maki's love life is already really complicated, and Silk thinks she'd probably just complicate it more if they were involved like that, because Silk does not see herself as good at these things. And she's still kind of hung up on Oni.
In general the kissing game left Silk kind of frustrated and confused in a lot of ways so it's probably going to be a work in progress while she figures things out. She does also feel kind of bad that she enjoyed kissing 2/3 of Maki's boyfriends. She might actually tell her in their current thread, like. Kissing you was nice. Also kissing some of your boyfriends was nice, I'm sorry, I don't know what to do with that.
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A lot of the strongest feelings Maki's had about Cardigan recently have been arguing with Taisho over the whole Yasuragi thing, though. Shu/Sol/Okami all have some very specific opinions on how Cardigan is self-righteous and entitled and etc., and every time they say things like that Maki has to yell at them about it. Because of course, in her opinion, Cardigan's reaction to Yasuragi was more than reasonable (they didn't even kill him! they just said they would next time! Yasuragi is the one who felt entitled to murder them for the sake of his unitmate!), and she also has a number of feelings about Cardigan being one of the few people who understands/supports her, so half of her unit just writing them off or wanting revenge for these (in Maki's opinion) entirely stupid reasons has been a big wedge between Maki and a lot of Taisho. So she's extra disposed to be defensive of Cardigan in general.
REVERSE
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[Here is a mini-thesis on how important "mutual understanding" is to the concept of family for Cardigan and how that concept controls A LOT!!!!! about how Cardigan values relationships.]
So they are personally very fond of Maki but "mentorly" is a good way to characterize how Cardigan approaches her. That's just how they roll; they come from a culture that values fostering autonomy above all else. Because of that they don't really see it as Maki's job to deal with their emotions. However, they have a lot of overlap in things they're dealing with so whenever they talk to Maki it generally ends up being helpful for them as well. On her own merits Cardigan respects Maki's intelligence and character so it's not out of the question that they would go to her for advice or help, it just hasn't come out yet.
What sort of plans (plot or personal) does Maki have/do you have for Maki?
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If not, talk to me about Maki and her canonmates (C and X).
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The other thing I can think of to update is that Intensity is actually the boyfriend Maki would be most likely to use the word 'love' about—or at least, to think about that way. She is still not sure about it, and she certainly wouldn't say it to his face since she doubts he'd appreciate it. But unlike Joker or A who are complicated in various ways and have obviously incited a lot of anger by not being there for her, Intensity... has been there for her, a lot more often and a lot more intensely than she would have expected given that he has no 'reason' to be (they don't have an official relationship and haven't even talked about supporting each other the way she has with Boss or A). So she really has a lot of intense appreciation and affection for him, which she can't really express directly because she feels very sure that would put him off. But she's aware of it and has thought about it.
That is why when she made the "love that lasts beyond the grave" comment she got so suddenly terrified, because while she meant it flippantly, hearing it made her worry he would take her seriously about it, and maybe she was serious about it?! Fortunately that wasn't the part of that he objected to. Eve also called her feelings for Intensity "young love", though, which brought it to mind again...
SHE STILL NOT REALLY SURE... WHAT TO DO WITH THAT.
I will do canonmates next, but you should also do CR updates, if any, and if not canonmate thoughs!
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C first. Things are hard with C and Maki never really knows where she stands with him. The fact that he hasn't taken any memories doesn't help, because everything she knows is her perspective. And, spoilers, Maki and Ouma did not get along very well in canon. She has not actually remembered the worst of it, but she has remembered Ouma calling her a worse liar than he is and holding him by his neck as he reveals she's actually an assassin in front of everyone, so... she gets the impression things aren't great.
In Imeeji things have been back and forth though! They started off okay, and then Maki immediately got angry at him for the original thing with A (calling him out on his feelings for Boss on a vid) - Maki didn't even really know A that well at that point, but they had just had a discussion about needing time to work out their feelings, so C forcing the issue so deliberately and publicly put her off a lot. Since then she's actually gotten the impression that he's generally well-meaning, though, and just... takes the worst possible approach to things, and refuses to own up to have been trying to help. She actually called him out a bunch on that in a cute thread where they mutually said things they knew about each other angrily. He also helped her pretend to be a Phantom Thief! But he also... keeps arguing with her that memories are pointless (obviously he's not the only one who does that, but it strikes her worse when it's literally the only person she could count on for camaraderie/understanding of her past). And A now thinks C is an unrepentant psychopath, so even though Maki still doesn't actually agree with that, she's still a bit annoyed with him because she thinks his suicide stunt was deeply stupid.
X!! God. She still doesn't know what to feel about him. They're closer now because he mainlined like 6 memories when she was gray to try to find one with her in it, and eventually did get a cute friends one where Maki confides her backstory. Then later on when she had her memories back, she confessed that she really wanted someone she could connect with about memories, and she didn't want to force him, but--! He of course accepted because X is overenthusiastic about everything.
On the romantic side, for all everyone calls him her boyfriend... she does remember having a crush on him, but she has not gotten the impression it was requited. Which is awkward. And as things are now she still honestly feels like she doesn't know him that well, so she's in this strange place where she has all these feelings that aren't quite connected to things, and they barely know each other, and also she is clearly a much different person than he remembers already, and has like three boyfriends? Since their whole canon relationship was based on Kaito dragging Maki out of self-imposed isolation into friendship, him showing up to her being stable and popular(???) very much makes it hard to know how to relate to him. THEY'RE... WORKING ON IT.
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So as established before, Intensity has at least admitted to himself that he likes Maki. YAY progress. And he has also decided he was going to take a gamble on trusting Maki - aka telling her about his off-game death and letting her stay with him while he was having nightmares. So pre-gray madness, Maki had been promoted to the inner circle. Which means when bad shit goes down, Intensity checks on these people (usually via text) to see if they are doing okay.
And that kind of shed some very interesting light on how Maki and her other boyfriends interact. You see, Intensity had always assumed that it was just a lovey dovey cuddle pile self-pity party after ever single traumatic event. But when he contacted her, she was just alone by herself in Taisho which was very ??? to Intensity, so of course he invited her over because even he is emotionally competent enough to realize that was bad for her. Very bad. But he knew that he would suck at the cuddle pile comfort stuff, so he asked her to send for A. But then A didn't come. And then Joker came but he seemed to be equally interested in snarking with Intensity as in taking care of his girlfriend and once again Intensity was very ??? Are you sure this is how this is supposed to go? This doesn't seem like how this is supposed to go? (As a side note, she also punched Joker on his behalf which was very nice. If they were SIM characters, Intensity would have had a '++' over his head for that because it's just very rare that people openly go to bat for him like that. And in a way that doesn't make he seem like he can't defend himself because he was doing fine). And then she had her crying breakdown and Intensity had a lot of emotions and reactions that he hasn't had before. Like he was upset that she was upset. And he was upset that he was being asked to used empathy and comfort muscles which he has maybe use twice in his life before that moment. And all in all, the whole experience was weird but not necessarily bad. And he walked away with less understanding of what "boyfriend" means than ever before.
He still doesn't want the title. Now more than ever.
Also, because of that whole disaster, Intensity has noticed two things about Maki. (1) She needs to have a lot of people in her life. And by a lot, I mean, more than Intensity needs in his life which is an unfair standard, it's true. But Maki does seem to need multiples of different types of people - boyfriends, friends, and a unit that serves as a family. And Intensity just doesn't get it. But luckily, he already went through a similar thing with Angel when FiN was down to three members: Intensity, Angel, and Three (who Intensity had kicked out for being a non-contributing zero). And he was very excited to have a FiN that was just him and Angel, but Angel was really sad. And she didn't cheer up until the arrival of Shogun, Bell, and Infinity. So Intensity sees Maki as having the same issue. She just needs to be involved and approved by a community of people, and while he doesn't get, he can work with it. Unfortunately, Maki doesn't have the same type of relationship that Angel and Intensity have where they have both told each that they are each other's favorites, so the multiple boyfriend things still bothers him a lot. Not because he is insecure, but because if he's ever going to really go for it, he's going to need to compete and play hard until Maki confirms his #1 position. Probably not going to be a pretty sight if that ever happens...
(2) Maki's actual self does not match what she wants others to perceive her as. This came out a lot during her grey period and then after the trial. There was a specific point in time where Maki was like "people called me cold-hearted and selfish" and a couple other adjectives to which Intensity was internally thinking, "Yes, dear. You are all those things. Oh wait... you want me to say they're wrong. Hmmmm." Which he really couldn't because she is all those things. And some of those things is why Intensity likes her. So he's not quite sure why she's upset about it. Or what kind of person she actually wants to be. Because, to be quite honest, a Maki without those negative qualities just seems... boring and not engaging. But that's a landmine he's not willing to trigger yet (or ever), so he's just going to let her figure herself out on that one. Best of luck. (But no, just embrace your negative traits and let people call you want they want. When Intensity calls her cold-hearted, it's supposed to be endearing. Really.)
And since you brought up Maki's opinions on love and trust, let me do the reverse for Intensity. As a shock to no one, Intensity doesn't like the word "love". In fact, he doesn't even like the word "like". There's just a certain point where his emotions and mindset put you in a certain bucket and he treats you accordingly. He doesn't know why there needs to be certain words that are exchanged or a promotion to certain feelings statuses. That means talking about feelings! Gross. That being said, he is capable of love. He loves Blue Eyes and his little brother shamelessly. But for romantic interests, he leans towards more "obsession" first than what would be the standard definition of love. And he's not obsessed with Maki - there are a lot of limiting factors that prevent that from happening at this time like his utter preoccupation with work and her multiple boyfriend situation. By Maki does rank really high in his important people in Imeeji. And if she throws around words like "like" and "love", he's going to fuss but ultimately not put too much effort into a fight because Maki has shown she's going to think what she wants to think. And everyone is entitled to their wrong opinion. So he wasn't even phased when she said the word love. Because he's the type of person who can denounce that they love someone, and then in the next breath say that they will travel to a deeper level of Hell and back to bring them back. In his mind, those two concepts are completely unrelated.
Regarding trust, Intensity really only trusts Maki to do what she thinks is right. So as long as his and her interests align, he doesn't really see them as having too much conflict. Obviously, the big trust issue he has with Maki stems from the Last Supper, and while she says she won't do that again, Intensity's not going to believe it until she actually has to make that choice. And in most choices, Intensity v. Joe Schmoe, he's pretty confident that Maki will choose to protect Intensity and his interests! He is less confident if it was a choice between the three boyfriends, though. Because A has self-esteem issues and Boss has victim issues, he can easily see himself getting hurt/offed whatever just because he would be the least troublesome to deal with in the aftermath, not that Maki thinks of him as a lesser or anything. But there does have to be some actionable proof that he is not "the expendable boyfriend" as he dubbed himself. Otherwise his trust levels will continue at decent levels, but not able to bridge that gap in order to trust her completely.
That was a lot of early morning rambling so I hope it made sense. And I'm off to catch a plane so I'll get to canonmates later.
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Early morning ramblings only included the complexity of the relationship and none of the dere. Here's the dere part:
Intensity is insanely attracted to Maki because she is a beautiful assassin badass who doesn't let anyone push her around and that kind of confidence (while annoying when they clash) is damn hot when they are in unison. And he likes her and wants her to be happy even if his only contribution to that is being a logical sounding board - which he will take the time to do because he does care. He still is very confused about the whole staying with him when he had nightmares because he doesn't really know how he's supposed to feel about that. On one hand, he does appreciate her a lot and it felt warm and reassuring to be able to sleep knowing she would watch out for him, but also it just still feels like a weakness. And he doesn't know how to reconcile that feeling positively.
And based from this kissing game, it's fairly obvious who Intensity respects and cares for because his attitude shifts from powerplay to trying to figure out what they would want and then trying to push the absolute limits of that. So I am also excited to see where this current thread goes because he really is trying to give Maki an experience and while he gets to enjoy being the dominant one, that's just a side benefit to seeing if he can pull this off successfully. Because he's not trying to hurt her but also he's Intensity so it's not going to be a gentle intro to being submissive.
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CANONMATES
Nine-Nine: Out of everyone in Imeeji, Intensity is pretty sure Nine-Nine understands him the best and he feels really comfortable in his understanding of Nine-Nine because they are so similar. Defeating the producers overshadows everything. Whatever it takes to do that, they are willing to do. Even the bullshit stuff like info gathering and sharing that they are both really really bad at. And he can talk to Nine-Nine about these things and their weaknesses regarding them v. the producers without feeling vulnerable. They also are really good about pointing out when one of them is going off the rails. Not how to solve the problem but things like "that last game fucked you up. Please fix that so we can get back to work." It's a really good thing they have going and if push came to shove, Intensity would burn a lot of bridges in order to keep this one because Nine-Nine is very important to him and his goals.
Anubis: Like Nine-Nine, Intensity trusts Anubis a lot because he also helps out a lot with work and generally has a good head on his shoulders. He's been very supportive and helpful to Intensity and his information gathering. And he also has the leash on Nine-Nine, which is very important since they both know Nine-Nine is going to try to destroy everything one day. It's fine. They're ready for it. He also is an expert on angels and demons which is invaluable to them. But Anubis is soft-er so can get overwhelmed. So Intensity is actually pretty protective of Anubis and his sanity. Enough that after Lucifel's stunt at the trial, Intensity went to try and figure out what the fuck happened there because he doesn't want this shit to fall on SensitIV but especially Anubis. Still working through that fallout at the moment... so stayed tuned.
Corona/Yugi: The relationship with Yugi and Intensity is a hot mess right now after that kissing game because ... wow. So when Intensity first met Yugi, he pretty much lived up to 'the kid at school you want to bully' image. He was sweet and kind and soft and somewhat unsure of himself. After the trial, he came up to Intensity a bit distraught about everything that happened in his first few days, and Intensity just pawned him off on his own unit to take care of him. Fast forward to beating Intensity at a game of Go Fish and one kissing contest later and oh my. Rival material. Also Intensity may have a very serious throw down with him at some point. In the kissing game, first it just was a game of tag to try and pin Yugi down with his super speed to get the fucking kiss. But then Yugi brought in the pep!pep! zapping powers and all bets were off. And it eventually boiled down to Yugi attempting to zap Blue Eyes and Intensity getting "intense" enough that Yugi eventually yielded because Yugi is a good person with common sense and Intensity is not. But hmmmm. Not sure what to think of Yugi at the moment because that was a sure an abrupt change in opinion. We'll see what happens post kissing game.
King: Saving this for last because, whew. WHEW. King. They are intensely murder-romance rivals. Obviously Intensity is attracted to him and his stupid smug confidence, and their default is to just snark and rival at each other. But there is also a reason that when King was high on Angel fumes and ran into Intensity, the first instinct was to mindfuck him. And then when Intensity purposefully and repeatedly pushed his buttons, then he just mindfucked him harder. That's just how they are. This is not a CR breaking event. Intensity is less mad about the mindfuck and more mad that there was no challenge he could win - it was just a punishment game without the proceeding game. When civil, they are actually on the same page and a fairly effective team. But their different views on everything make them butt heads a lot and they apologetically are awful to each other while somehow respecting each other. So King brings out the worst and best in Intensity and it's complicated. The fact that they escalated the kissing game from kisses to sleeping together is not going to help make things less complicated.
Spoilers for Yu-Gi-Oh! ahead: Canonly, Kaiba is unhealthily obsessed with Atem. To the point that after he passed on to the afterlife, Kaiba spent 6 months and billions of dollars in order to revive him which included, but was not limited to - a private space station, a space elevator to get to said space station, a lifelike AI of Atem complete with personality programmed in, and the invention of a cloud computing that you hook your brain up to in order to increase processing power. So it's bad. It's real bad. And when Intensity realizes King is the "Pharaoh sleeping in the puzzle" from his memories, he's going to have an emotional meltdown. Sorry in advance... (though I am looking forward to playing out Intensity v. his memories because he hates the idea of them so much).
Question: What does Maki think of the persona world? (Since this is a fun question that you asked on my question meme which I still plan on getting back to this week hopefully)
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She's also actually pretty distressed about how A has described his and Joker's powers in specific, in terms of being able to manipulate people's minds at will. I've said it a few times, but, partially due to not having a lot of agency over much else in her life, Maki is very deeply attached to the integrity of her own mind and her own decisions. This is also why monochrome disease freaked her out so much. So the idea that someone, without her knowledge, could come into the cognitive world of her mind and just change her somehow makes her DEEPLY uncomfortable. (Hilarious jokes about her own canon go here.) She got out of that conversation with A by assuring him that of course she definitely trusts him with it, but the fact that that appears to have been what both he and Joker were habitually doing, in different ways, still makes her Unsure.
What Plans does Intensity currently have going on?
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INSTEAD TELL ME ABOUT MAKI'S GIRL CRUSHES
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EDIT to say I forgot about Santa. Who is definitely an overdramatic idiot girl Maki could have been into... if she hadn't hit on Boss literally right after Maki confided in her that she didn't think Boss saw her as as sexual as other people. TOO MUCH... INSECURITY/BETRAYAL THERE.
Which is to say her main girl crush right now is Prim! She doesn't really know her that well yet but she's cute and polite but clearly also assertive and she likes killing monsters with a big axe and she asked Maki to give her knife lessons. What's not to like.
The only other one that's close is Angel, but Angel is... right on the line of too childish. She doesn't think of her totally as a child since she knows she's actually very smart in certain ways, and a lot of her emotional naivete is something Maki empathizes with herself, but she's just naive or thoughtlessly kind/well-meaning enough in other ways that Maki doesn't really have feelings like that for her. If things change it's possible that could push over though.
CR me if there are thoughts I haven't heard, and/or Fox's top 10 hot list.
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Hmm. One thing I don't think I've talked about in depth recently but which came up in their talking about killing thread (and actually her current thread with A too) is Maki still doesn't feel like Joker and A have entirely... taken to heart that she's an assassin? This is a problem that she has with people in general really, it just obviously is most pronounced with them. The particular thing that they do was highlighted a while back when we did that threeway memory thread around the one where Maki talked about how she became an assassin - volunteering to go so her friend didn't have to. She ended up bristling a bit at Boss and A because they were both sorry for her? And in general they seemed to believe she was forced to be an assassin by the situation.
This goes a bit back into how Maki has literally never had full agency over her situation, so she gets angry if people act like she can't make real choices, or her choices don't matter. Yes, it was a bad situation where children were forced to be assassins. But she personally chose to volunteer! She could have not volunteered. And the reasons she did that is that she thought her friend was too kind to survive assassin training. The corollary to this is that Maki did not think she herself was too kind to survive assassin training.
And she did survive it! It was terrible (though she only has secondhand memories of this from talking about it), but she came out of it freakishly strong and completely numb to killing. So, in Maki's opinion, she started out with a predisposition to be more okay than some people with killing, and then she only got trained to be more cold and emotionless about it. And that has been the case for her here! With E, and also with killing Doodleman and Aradia, she honestly had no particular feelings about the death being committed at her hands, and still doesn't.
So, when Boss is freaking out about how he wanted to kill someone, or that he might have violent tendencies, Maki is always a bit like... oh really?? And then A just told her he remembered killed someone and she was like "okay, so?" and he said he probably killed a lot of people and she was like "do you know who you're talking to??"
LIKE... there's a line there somewhere, because she does appreciate them opening up to her, and she does actually appreciate(?) that they have similar tendencies to her (I think I mentioned that Boss being kind of morally ambiguous was one of the reasons Maki was more comfortable with him, even at the very beginning), but when it becomes a guilty, self-flagellating thing, it upsets her, because... if they're so guilty and unhappy about [thing they did or want to do], what does that mean for all the things she's done and has zero remorse for? It's a combination of "maybe I really am just a cold-hearted killing machine" and "are they not even thinking about who I am and what I've done while they're saying this? or have they just convinced themselves none of that was my choice?"
SO... THERE'S THAT.
DATE IDEAS:
- An explicitly roleplay date of some kind. CROSSDRESSING DATE IS A BIT THAT but more so.
- I'm not sure how much onsen they'll actually get to in the current thread but either way we still should do threeway relaxing onsen date sometime
- C...Cookie date?? IT'S BEEN SO LONG
- Bring boyfriends to Zrael (is this a date)
TALK IDEAS:
- I guess probably the assassin thing. killing Intensity is related to this
- Gotta talk about Mars
- Gotta have Joker moderate that talk with Sanguine
...I think that's all I've got for now. REVERSE ALL AROUND
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So he wasn't meaning to talk down(?) to her about being an assassin because he's really never had an issue with that, but there was the whole "stop acting like you have some super dark side or something" when he's actively trying to explain that he has trouble separating himself out from that experience because 100 years staring at body of person he sexy torture-murdered while isolated in a mirror. Which he has trouble talking about at all ever in the first place, but her being an assassin and one who can coolly kill someone off and not give any fucks about it one way or another did have him feeling like he was the flawed one for having the reaction. But I guess that also ties into her being like WHY WOULD YOU EVER WANT TO BE LIKE THIS? while Joker sometimes is like GEE, I SURE WOULD LIKE TO BE LESS OF AN EMOTIONAL IDIOT LIKE EVERYONE SAYS I AM. Like, for fuck's sake, can't even get murdering right! Have to be weird and gross about it thanks to possession and insanity possibly ingraining some tendencies! (which again, Maki would find stupid of him but like... at least it's a familiar stupid area)
He can probably explain that better if they ever touch on it again, but the fact that Maki also admitted that she never really felt... idk. Satisfaction? Or like... a sense of enjoyment out of killing kind of made it glaringly apparent to Joker that some of it probably just won't translate. Fooor various reasons--not least of which Maki not believing she's really capable of strong emotions that could lead to vengeful acts of passion. Which Joker personally doesn't believe, but not a battle he's equipped to fight, either. And is kind of what made him just close out of that talk with saying he thinks that's what Asmodeus wants from people.
Like, for sure, he doesn't understand what she went through with becoming an assassin and he does have the view of it being "gun to her head" going into it but he's also not a stranger to the concept of people taking ownership for decisions made under duress--he gets a bunch of shit whenever he points out to anyone that they all don't really have any real control over their situation in Imeeji except for like... how they react to it. Which isn't very empowering, over all. So there's always going to be that kind of discrepancy...
Though, honestly, I think A and Joker are in the same boat of Uncomfortably, I Enjoy Doing A Murder Sometimes, Hm... while Maki is desensitized to murder in general. So like... mildly awk for Joker personally to talk about...
ANYWAY, ONWARD:
DATE IDEAS:
- dual fighting sim in vid room--maybe even trio w/ A?
- pillow fort in the lobby ... idk it sounds dumb and cute
- MAYBE... CLASSIC WATCH A MOVIE? even if they're all old and black and white
TALK IDEAS:
- idk i like cute library thread idea where Joker's reading up on things to help himself do better
- GOTTA TALK ABOUT... MARS...
- should probably address the Fox in the room
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But the "never really had an issue with her being an assassin" part is actually... her issue... because the fact that he's never had an issue with it is why she doesn't think it's really sunk in for him. She has an issue with her being an assassin! A lot of issues actually. She's had this discussion with a couple of people - she doesn't care when she kills people, but she does care about the fact that she doesn't care. She is aware that is not a good reaction, and her biggest issues are around how much of her emotional reactions (or lack thereof) is just... her, that would have been that way even without the assassin training.
And "how much of this would have been me even without this event that deeply affected me" is basically the same as Joker's Betrayal thing!
And so she tries to give him advice based on her experience struggling with that (like she did in their first post-Betrayal feelings conversation and again in the recent one): it may be who you are now, it may be true you're able to do terrible things now, but you're also able to choose what you do, and who you become from here, etc - and it seems like he did not take that to heart at all, or feel like she was giving advice from experience, because he insists his situation is totally different.
And like... it is different! But they are both bad. He can't write off her childhood of assassinating people, partially of her own volition, as nothing to worry about, while meanwhile obsessing over how that one time he killed someone while he were literally possessed means he might sexy murder someone at any moment.
I mean. He can. But it upsets her. Because a) it feels like he doesn't understand her or take her issues seriously, and b) she is genuinely trying to help him in an area she actually feels like she can help him and it doesn't feel like he's listening.
ALSO YES... FOX SHOULD DEFINITELY BE ON THE LIST TOO...
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BUT IT DOES SEEM LIKE THEY HAVE QUITE A BIT TO TALK ABOUT WITH ASSASSIN THINGS, THAT'S TRUE. I think it's really the perspective of him being in the midst of the bad and adjusting and she's already gone through the bad and is adjusted that might be where he's failing to pick up some of the stuff. sorta like "well, yeah but you make it look easy" without taking into account that IT WAS HARD FOR HER which is... a perspective issue on his end for sure.
BUT YEA UH. Talks.
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A number of talks should happen
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That would usually make her more dubious about the relationship, since she's usually dubious of people who decide to be friends with her without knowing her, and especially because Req is... probably the most 'normal' friend she's had? Personality-wise, in the sense that she seems like a girl who probably has friends and has dated and is not emotionally stunted by traumatic events throughout the bulk of her childhood years. But... the way they started out was with Req being miffed at her for having murdered two of her unitmates, so Maki's usual "surely this nice friendly person actually just doesn't understand that I'm not a good person" reflexes are confused and stymied, since probably it would be hard to get off on a worse foot than that.
So she's fairly comfortable around her, but is not sure why, and doesn't really understand a lot of the things she does. She will still share things about herself with her, though, because what's the worst that could happen.
THEIR KISS... WAS CONFUSING... Because Maki likes Req but was not particularly attracted to her. The thing is though that Maki, being emotionally stunted by traumatic events throughout the bulk of her childhood years, is actually really bad at noticing when she's attracted to someone without having her attention called to it. So a lot of her kisses have been like, well, I like this person fine, and I'm not not attracted to them, so sure let's go for it. WITH VARYING RESULTS.
She pushed the kiss mostly on impulse, because Maki still is not very secure in her ability to do things people like when it comes to kissing/sex/etc. (She is most secure with Intensity because Intensity is a huge masochist and not shy about it and Maki certainly knows how to hurt people.) So she grabbed the opportunity to maybe be a cool sexy kisser for a minute.
Afterwards as they discussed she was... kind of uncomfortable, because she still didn't know how she feels about Req really, or feel like she knows her very well, so while the kiss was kinda nice she wasn't really all in. And the fact that Req was very much into it made her feel very awkward. SORRY... I'M NOT ACTUALLY GOOD AT THIS...
She'll probably be fine the next time they talk though! I mean depending how much Req probes her on it I guess.
REVERSE
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weeEEELLLLL.........
Anyway!! Req likes Maki a lot, but definitely not as more than anything than a casual friend. Her feelings on Maki really aren't complicated at all, honestly. She's cute, she's fun to tease, and Req is confident about being able to exchange hits in games without there being any majorly hurt feelings in the long run. Also notable is that Maki takes Req seriously! And seems to respect her as a person and as someone who's like... sort of authority on her team.
Req is not having so many feelings about the kissing though omg. THIS IS VERY FUNNY TO ME PERSONALLY mostly because Maki's having so many thoughts and feelings and some sort of internal conflict about it and with Req it pretty much boils down to "Maki's cute, we kissed, Maki got a little toppy and it was hot and I would have done more if she wanted. But she didn't want, so that's fine too." And that was that!
She doesn't really understand Maki's insistence that she isn't good at/doesn't know/etc feelings things because from where Req's standing she seems to be a pretty normal person. But also she's a half demon vampire from a world where there's an entire kingdom made of candy and another made of breakfast foods and so on, so maybe she's not the best judge of... normality.
talk about makis zrael feelings more bc i love it
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Man Eater!!
Maki likes him. I said it on plurk somewhere, but while Maki is not yet quite attracted to/romantically interested in Man Eater, she has a sense that that's going to inevitably happen at some point. She's comfortable around him! They have things in common (emotionless assassin)! They like the same boy (Intensity)! He reminded her of Intensity when he was talking about feelings! Some more time together and maybe her feelings will slide that way, she figures. Which is kinda why she's mentally caveating the "Zrael has the advantage over Bad End for not having people I'm romantically interested in on it" argument with "yet." Though maybe she'll like some of the others too, who knows.
I typed all of that a few days ago before we finished their kiss but it's all still pretty true. She went further with the kiss than with anyone else she wasn't actively interested in except Silk, and that was pretty nice really, but she isn't actively disappointed she can't do it again like she is with, say, Mars. Part of that is also that she is not actually very fightsexual. Yet? She's working on it.
Beyond that, she's interested in what's going on with him, especially after their whole conversation during the gray period where he insisted that playing his part was the best thing to do, and the way he said that actually she was right about it afterwards. She didn't push on it at the time because harping on "YEAH I was right" didn't seem like the right move then, plus she was tired, but it's still kind of in the back of her mind to talk to him about identity and self-definition again now that his perspective on it has apparently changed a bit.
REVERSE
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I guess the most recent tentative plan I have, as of like four hours ago, is for Maki to demote all her boyfriends to FWB status and just start everything fresh from there. Relationships are hard. But we'll see if that's actually what happens when she attempts to have the conversation.
One thing I would like to happen is getting more of a chance to play with Maki's dubious morality assassin stuff. Right now many people are kinda like "well sure you're an assassin but you were forced into it and you're actually a good person, don't worry about it." Maki is pretty sure there are actually a number of things to worry about there, and has a few times been like "I killed these people and didn't even really care either way, is that concerning?" And it's true that often the people she kills (E, Doodle, Aradia) she has no particular feelings or regrets about killing. She does regret killing Intensity at this point, but that's like... okay maybe killing people she maybe-loves is a bad idea. That doesn't make killing in general a bad idea. She is still pretty sure she's a lot more willing to kill people than the people she's close to would actually be comfortable with, in practice, and is not really a good person by most definitions.
I AM HOPING I WILL GET SOME MORE CONFLICT THERE IN HUNGER GAMES.
Reverse, i.e. any plans for Nine?